Interview with Gordon Poon,  VP Student Services ARC Student Services   Back to ARC Institutional Report index

He has worked at ARC for 3 years

You’re dealing with a wide variety of students. Your lower division is a set of classes where some of your classmates are going to be 28 years old coming back, their company has been downsized, to a 17 year old who got tired of school and dropped out and took a High School prep program and was able to come in on a GED and they are all sitting as your classmates, so as an instructor and as Student Services we are challenged to take the different education and social and the emotional types of levels that each of these individuals bring in and try to make them successful.

There is no one to break them down for you. And as Student Services we have to say how are we going to be able to do this. In our delivery system over the years what has happened is that the college provides funding that looks at core services, such as advising, dorms, admissions, student activities, counseling. At our college we have these fundamental services as well and throughout the years, the state has provided funding that extend beyond basic services. Each college decides what to support, e.g. financial aid, counseling/advising, admissions, depending on their need. Going back to the 60’s EOP&S (equal opportunity programs and services) funding came in to help the colleges augment students that were under-represented in various upper-division programs.  Then the disabled students programs and services. Helped augment the programs where there was not adequate funding. Primarily counseling and other support outside the classroom.

Over the years, priorities have come down from the state in the form of dollars, like the transfer center.  Davis may decide we want this kind of calculus and in another college they don’t care. If you were a lower division student in one place, your are scrambling trying to decide your academic goal and major. How am I going to make sure that this person and what they are taking is the right thing? So in Student Services you see the areas of articulation, transfer, etc. It is the responsibility of the college to identify resources that can tap into the university and maintain that kind of communication, not just in Student Services, but also in the area of instruction. The challenge is hiring the staff that can work with a multitude of profiles of students.

In Student Services the challenge is focusing on students coming through the door deciding where to allocate resources and prove each year that you were successful. Each year they introduce new populations, for example most recent had Right to Work, and CalWorks came in a few years ago. These individuals are very low in English and math. Or a college grad that just fell on hard times. You will see that the dollars that represent each program came in on the over and above the solid areas that are functioning. A lot of schools don’t do it that well. Each institution is challenged to look at what resources they have and what augmentations of dollars come down from the state and how do you use it.

In Student Services the focus is what is the profile of the students.  It’s not like a university where they are going to stay. If tomorrow they find a great program or professor elsewhere, they move. Often they need the correct combination of courses at one school and another.

How do you set up something within a college anticipating that a student is going to come because of what you offer and stay because of what you offer? Instructors may never see a given student again.  The challenge is how do you continually bring and identify students that you can tap into in terms of enrollment and then serve them as you are growing with limited resources.  And then how does the internal communication of an institution continue so that we have this dialogue about what we are trying to do. For our Student Services division, we have a unique team of individuals where we have been able to tap into the talents of the staff. If you look at institutions, you will see an organizational chart that reflects specific jobs and assignments.

When I came in, I set up a strategic plan for how we were going to operate. How do you move an organization to focus on students. Most institutions focus on faculty. Class schedules are based on faculty desire: what, when, where, and seniority. The question of what students are coming in this year never enters. In private institutions they  pursue a specific profile that has been successful in the past.  As a public institution, we have to serve anybody who comes through the door.  So instead of seeing a traditional organization chart, the challenge to be more focused on students required that the organization chart be more dynamic. Realigned the boxes so the functions of the individual and the areas serve in a fluid function. Realigned the titles to move positions and re-identify areas in terms of the lead persons. On the left side, if we do any outreach to the schools, agencies, whatever, all of that is under here. You bring the student in, do matriculation (admissions, orientation, assessment, counseling, advising, student follow up). Then all of the services here are how do we provide all of the services so that a student will have learning resources, tutorials, special counseling, transfer center for information about universitys to make sure we have course-to-course agreements and the combination of courses which we call program articulation.  So we put all that here along with career center, placement, health, activities, etc.  Left side is getting them in and the right side is taking care of them once they get here.

If the three of us sat here with this budget in 1980… 20 years later if we had the same dollars, salaries would go from 50% of budget to 90% of budget. The 3% added each year might or might not cover the operational dollars. So we have to see what kind of augmentations we are getting. Not like a private business where we can tell two people to leave and replace them with two clones.  In higher education you have an aging faculty, so it’s very costly and you have retirements, especially in a place where people love it, how do we look at today’s students, where are they coming from, how do you get them in here, how does the schedule reflect what we know about students. Trying to work with the Office of Institutional Research to see what are the indicators that tell us how we are doing and what is the profile of our students right now and what is the utilization and where do we go from here.  How do we assure that we get the students that are coming through?

How do I make the schedule work for the student that are here.  Most faculty wants to do what they have done in the past. Who walks in the door is not their problem. Take it or leave it. Other institutions get a filtered student base, including transfer students who have been filtered by community colleges. The Community College transfer is often more successful because they have faced and made decisions at the Community College level.

Challenge is informing students and parents early in terms of opportunities at a Community College.  Not too many folks understand it. They end up 3,000 miles away from home going to the wrong places. How many of them really know what they want to do when they graduate from high school. In Student Services you have to ask the students, because they won’t ask themselves. Why pay $30K for your children to figure out what they want to do. When you get to the university they cannot offer a menu of majors across the board. Especially in a private university; degrees tend to be more generic.

At ARC we don’t use a clock. Matriculation was intended to provide students with the services and the classes that let the student attain what they are trying to get. Often we go longer than 2 years, because students carry fewer units. We ask the students the right questions to help them determine the correct course. Universities don’t ask those questions, but just put students in the courses they need to complete a major. We revisit as you’re going along to provide the support that is helpful.  We have all walks of life coming through. We are closing in on 30-31,000 students.  For every 900 students we have another counselor.  It’s commitment to provide that kind of service to our students. For disabled students we have state of the art services. We made a major turn when the president hired him, we reorganized to provide something that’s more fluid.

Made a commitment to have the Dean of Student Services (student outcomes) report to the VP Instruction with a dotted line, so that the communication lines organization is built in; a two way conversation. If the VP Instruction makes a commitment to a business partner to set up a program, there is a direct communication over to us to say here’s what we need in Student Services, identify the students, work as a team. Internal kind of trust that we are building. You are asking people to do something different. Cannot perceive people from another department as a threat, it won’t work. And utilize them to chair hiring committees. He’s able to be an active part on a weekly basis. Will try to do this ultimately with all deans.

When you buy a class schedule, that’s the one you use. 50% of the class offerings have closed after continuing students finish with their priority registration. You can’t tell what’s closed and what isn’t; like shooting in the dark. And what’s the likelihood that the other 50% are going to stay open.  So I’ve been working with Instruction to create color coded class schedules. They produce schedules with 60%+ vacancies. They want support for those sections. Counselors work with the Dean of Instruction to determine when to stop pushing one class and start pushing, for example, a late-start class. What do we want to support for the benefit of the students. That’s the type of dialogue we’re engaged in right now to move an entire institutions to be on the same page so that tomorrow when a student walks in the door, we all know what we’re doing and we’re all sending the same message. Key is to have the conversations across departments.

Gordon takes issues to the PES and identifies conversations that need to take place. For example, we all know who doesn’t fill their sections. Rather than cancel sections, get all counselors to push those classes. Focusing on students.  What if 3 of 4 required classes are offered at the same time (or at opposite ends of the day). Classes won’t be filled and the student suffers.  Scheduling typically has been faculty driven by the VP Instruction. Student Services identifies that if classes are scheduled differently, he can fill them. Allows students to graduate sooner. Concept of linked classes, learning communities. Have to have conversations about how we’re going to do this.

The bottom line is enrollment. How many students do you get coming back from last semester and coming in. We were worried that we wouldn’t cross 3% growth. When you’re doing this, you maximize enrollment. Not just how many students, but how much are they taking. Student contact hours is the key measure.  Better use of classroom facilities, but means greater need for supplies, support services. UC Davis may add requirements because things are getting too tight; somebody at ARC has to translate it so it ends up on the schedule in the correct place. May need fast track plan for some students.  Still have a ways to go. Need to identify students with special scheduling requirements. Or specific transfer needs.

Microsoft identified LRCCD as Microsoft grant institutions which allows identification of career pathways in technology fields.  Everyone is committed to do it. Counselors can schedule manually or provide tools to make sure students get the right classes. Maximizes the time that can be spent with each student.

Change can come in two ways: they change and then you have to change or you change and then bring them along. You can have a special on the menu but if your waiter isn’t pushing it you’re not going to sell any. And if you didn’t tell the waiter what it is, they can’t push it. Or you can run out and they don’t know so they’re still pushing it. And you can’t promise something you cannot deliver.

You want to maximize the ability of the student to succeed. Have to move beyond the lip service.  How do you move from faculty/staff-based to student-based  operations. With no guaranty that the student will come.  How do you influence an organization to make such changes. What rewards can you use to help imbed this style of management. What would engender continued motivation to perfect it. How do you take what you like and make it part of the culture, especially in Student Services. It works at ARC because you know that your leader supports what you do in the sense that there is a freedom to do it. No micromanaging or one-way street type of loyalty. Need to provide necessary resources and a consistent message and follow through support. Need to constantly examine use of resources to make sure what is being done is still necessary or can be better allocated elsewhere.

A lot of it has to do with Stephen Covey’s work. Have to prepare the soil. Everyone has to contribute on a regular basis. May not see results this year, but have to make effort on a regular basis to see long term results. Planning takes time. Will make mistakes. Must also establish ways to be creative. Create an open environment. Exploring and considering new ideas.  There are elements that are more traditional, more conservative, but that’s okay. Better to not have to write memos to cover yourself all day. ARC provides an opportunity to advance things.  Intrinsically more rewarding.  Don’t use position and title to relegate people. Everybody pitches in to do whatever is needed.

Other colleges are different: top down. We do have something unique, even within our district. ARC is more bottom up.  This college is traditional in that the president and the PES do hold a very traditional sense in the organization. There is a vertical layer. The responsibility to make decisions comes with a heavy price tag: to make sure everybody has been included. That’s your responsibility.  Have to consider everyone’s input.

Student Services in a Community College is very unique. In the university it’s just a student affairs arm. Very traditional: psych, counseling, housing, student advising, activities, that’s it. In Community College you have to address a larger potential population. It’s pretty daunting. Our higher education system is like our elementary school system. The tougher the population, the tougher the task, the less funded you are and the less rewarded you are.  The UCs are working with only 12% of the population. Many of their students don’t know what they want to do. The counselors don’t ask the right questions. It’s tougher here because we have the gamut of students coming back to school and those just starting out. Some students have gone to the east coast and come back because there was nothing out there. Just spending money. Need to understand that there is everybody in a typical class of thirty. How do you move your class, at what rate, what pace, what kind of delivery.
 

Gordon also described adapting the organization chart and the personal communication/reporting relationships to focus on teamwork and creativity in serving the needs of students.  Student Services works closely with the Instructional Program to help students get the classes they need.  This is done through scheduling of linked classes, establishment of learning comunities and updating the list of open classes frequently at the start of each semester.

Student Services at ARC includes a wide range of programs from student recruitment, admissions and student success while enrolled at ARC, and articulation to support transfer of ARC students to universities.

 Career Opportunity Center
 Children's Center
 Counseling
 Disabled Student Services
 Financial Aid
 Health Center
 Learning Resource Center
 Re-Entry Center
 Transfer Center
 Work Experience Program